Sorry this is out of topic a bit.
If it is true about the IRs above, also considering so many commercial IRs now, wasting our time and effort and money just to prove it is not U2 stuff.
Why don't we make special order to cab producer to create IRs based on our certain spec to achieve the Edge core tone? Just a thought.
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SoundCloud... https://soundcloud.com/thinknolimitz
My opinion is there is no need to do this because the current IRs are just fine. First, there are plenty of them out there. After you compare about 50 of them you will notice they start to have similarities. They certainly make a difference in tone, but not a huge difference. There is so much power in teh amp model parameters (and flexibility) that you can dial in the tone you are looking for with almost any IR. But it certainly helps to start with one or two that are close, then adjust the amp model for those IRs. I've heard many IRs supposedly from actual vintage AC-30s and haven't liked them. But that could do with the way they were produced. Even if someone developed an IR with Edge's amps, it doesn't mean it would work for us because his "internal amp settings" are driving those IRs and we don't have those settings. So just select a high quality IR that gets you close. Again, way too many combinations of things available for the Axe. Select an amp model and IR and then invest the time to adjust the parameters to converge on Edge's tone.Originally Posted by thinknolimitz
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I agree with michael on this; remember edge using several ac30's , even maybe rather new ones these days. Still sounds like him anyways (imho the sound was to bright, very good, but a little to bright).
In the amp model you can change settings which makes the ir behave/sound differently. Experiment with those. Also, In the brt model the cap used is about 100uf if i remember well, change it to 60 or 70 to have it more close to edges.
The changes i make these days are very minor. As i said above, the used reverb seems to make the sound or break it: i never realized or heard that earlier in the axe. This to me means its getting closer to the real thing in "behaviour".
At the end of the day its just an eq of a sound signal , lol.
My advice would be read carefully through the discussion on the fractal forum (started by edo) selected some hints and pointers from it (like the cap value above), add those to the ac30brt model (he did a small thing to the eq, and cliff added some suggestions aswell) Add cablab 18 number a1 and b1 irs to it (also mentioned in the thread on fractal). Maybe have bass down to 4.5, middle 5.5 and treble also 5.5. Add a tc2290 in mono before amp (see thread for edo's suggestion on feedback and mix etc)
Play a while with that preset, compare it to imgl, slane etc.
Then i would like to know if you think thats getting close? Or what changes you would like to add?
Okay, I create a preset to test delay before the amp, and this is the result so far (preset screenshot below soundcloud link). I must admit setting delay before the amp is more difficult (for me), and this clip I guess need to increase the feedback and modulation rate.
What do you think guys?
Capture.jpg
SoundCloud... https://soundcloud.com/thinknolimitz
That doesn't sound too bad. I have a suggestion that I have made to others based on reviewing your screenshot. Like many others, you are assuming that more blocks is better in the Axe (mostly because it's so easy to just add stuff when you couldn't do this in a regular rig). I can absolutely tell you the delay placement is not a factor (I've tried both and hear no difference). And you lose any stereo capabilities you might want to use in a delay because the amp block is mono in and stereo out and delay is stereo in and stereo out.
More importantly, you have way too many blocks in your preset. Two comps, 1 PEQ and 2 GEQs tells me you haven't spent near enough time on the amp model and IRs. The tone ends up highly compressed and flat sounding. You are essentially trying to get tone by adding things that are not necessary because the amp model has so many other parameters you can change that will drastically change your tone. And they change the tonal quality / EQ at different point in the amp circuit and provide a way to better control the dynamics, hardness and other factors. The other blocks do simple things compared to the amp model, so you end up adding too many things and it usually doesn't work or takes up too much CPU. Simpler is still better in the digital world, an it's easier to manage. The amp model has it's own EQ tab, and even that should be used last and modestly. Edge does not use this many comps and EQs in his rig. It's all about the amp model. I'm not sure why so many people think comp is so important. It's used on a few songs on lead solos, and maybe in a few other places, but it's a very subtle effect. It's also a tone sucker. Remember is compresses the volume. If you are looking for more mids or less highs, use the amp model parameters first. Don't assume the amp model parameters represent exactly what Edge has. In my opinion it does not. And don't be afraid to spend time with them. Turn each one full left, play, then turn full right, and play. Write down which ones make the biggest difference and narrow down the list and start tweaking with that set of parameters. Many don't do much (just like comp really doesn't do that much relative to other adjustments). Take your time and compare. Listen to your favorite version of Edge's live recordings. Record your track and compare in a DAW (mute one, listen, mute the other listen). It takes many hours to find the right combination. And there is no one answer. There are infinite combinations of settings and many will work, but it takes time to find them. Each and every parameter in the amp model is essentially a comp and/or EQ type settings. So there is no reason to add anything to the chain. Use the other blocks sparingly. For example, you use a comp for a lead solo separately so you can turn it on and off. But if the amps core tone needs comp, well there is an entire tab for that in the amp model. So all you are doing is introducing too much complexity to your guitar chain. You now have to consider infinitely more combinations of parameters to get the tone you are looking for. JMHO.
Thanks Michael! I will definitely try your suggestion.
I spent 1.5 hours to create this patch to test delay before amp method. Did this couple months ago but feels not doing it right, so I tried again. About highly compressed, not sure if this from compressor (probably the cab selections that I use)...will try to your suggestion. The PEQ is to filter out some frequency from my guitar (the higher tone on the 2nd string has more power than the other strings)...but not really works I think. The latest GEQ didn't use for recording but for FRFR speaker (difficult to use EQ for Out1/2).
Michael, could you share how you use amp + cab. Do you use the same setting for all songs, or different for each song?
SoundCloud... https://soundcloud.com/thinknolimitz
I'm going to do a video tutorial on how to seek out tone with the Axe-Fx. Everyone has different guitars, ears and preferences. I'm on a mission to try to politely convince people not to rely so much on other people's presets. The Axe-Fx is an incredibly powerful modeler and I have invested hundreds of hours on it. Anyone who buys an Axe needs to invest a lot of time and get to know it's capabilities. It's NOT a plug and play device. If that's what someone wants, then buy an amp, guitar and pedals (they only have two or three knobs to turn). The Axe has hundreds of parameters. It's a powerful tool to build any tone and ANYONE can do it (especially if I can). But it takes time to get used to it. You don't have to understand all the technical details. All you have to do is experiment with each and every parameter. Forget about U2 at first. Just play with everything and get a feel for how the tone changes when you change just one parameter. It's like learning to ride a bike or fly a plane. It takes time to get coordinated an know what you want to adjust.
Hello all!
It is very interesting discussion. I spent a lot of time with AMP block in AX FX to find best tone. But how as i understand, more than 70% parameters in AMP block duplicate each other. If you know, which papametrs can to influence to the tone (i mean drastically, but not bass, treble, mid), and you wish discuss it in this topic with others, please write name of these parameters.
EQ can give only these changes (not colorful tone, how in Slane for examle), i mean more low or high tone, more treble or middle frequensies, but it is whoun't change your tone unfortunately. It is only my experiense, and if you have own, i hope you share. Offcourse Michael's tone is the best in AX FX, but i think he is have some own secret in tuning and it is not AMP block only.
Last edited by Dmitry; 01-09-2016 at 06:46 PM.
Wow...you read my mind! My wish, I was just about to request the same.
People love these kind of tutorials How to dial up the Brown Sound in ten minutes and Stevie Ray Vaughan Guitar Tone Tutorial | SRV Fractal Axe-Fx 2 and other similar tutorials. It helps people a lot at least to achieve the most part of the tone they seek, and learn something from the expertise of others. Doing firsthand is the best and mostly takes more time, but not all succeed and sometimes people get lost.
I have different thought about sharing preset, but understand your point. Mostly we have to tweak others people's preset, coz we have different guitar and equipment/gears. I also use those preset to understand how it works and why and which parameter to tweak. It really helps. It will be helpful if we have the tutorial to seek the Edge tone.
Thank you for the discussion and help
Last edited by thinknolimitz; 01-10-2016 at 12:03 AM. Reason: my English is not good, limited vocabulary and grammar :-P
SoundCloud... https://soundcloud.com/thinknolimitz
I was going to reply to this thread, but I thought it would be best to start a new thread;
http://forum.u2guitartutorials.com/showthread.php?5685-Building-Axe-Fx-Presets-the-Michael-Way&p=45350&viewfull=1#post45350
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